{"id":34618,"date":"2026-07-08T07:40:38","date_gmt":"2026-07-08T11:40:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/?p=34618"},"modified":"2026-07-08T13:14:04","modified_gmt":"2026-07-08T17:14:04","slug":"greg-hawks-act-like-owner-culture-vandals-engagement-ai","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/greg-hawks-act-like-owner-culture-vandals-engagement-ai\/","title":{"rendered":"Act Like an Owner: Greg Hawks on Culture, Workplace Vandals, and Leading Through Uncertainty"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In this week&#8217;s episode, Geoff sits down with Greg Hawks, keynote speaker, corporate culture expert, and bestselling author of&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.greghawks.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Act Like an&nbsp;Owner<\/a>. Drawing on 25 years of leadership experience and a framework born from running a nonprofit and managing rental properties simultaneously, Greg shares why most engagement strategies target the wrong employees, what it&nbsp;actually takes&nbsp;to build culture that sticks, and how leaders can maintain trust through layoffs and AI uncertainty.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"video-embed\" style=\"position:relative;padding-bottom:56.25%;height:0;\">\n<iframe src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/FU3uoH7dyWs?si=Y1JfTc-a8n02XDos\" title=\"Act Like an Owner: Greg Hawks on Culture, Vandals, and Leading Through Uncertainty\" style=\"position:absolute;width:100%;height:100%;top:0;left:0;\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen=\"\">\n  <\/iframe>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"row justify-content-between\">\n<div class=\"cs-btn-light text-center mb-4 col-12 col-md-6 pr-md-4\">\n  <a class=\"cs-button d-flex align-items-center justify-content-center w-100\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/act-like-an-owner-greg-hawks-on-culture-workplace\/id1869414001?i=1000775921781\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"gap: 8px\">\n\n<img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/Apple-Podcasts-logo.png?w=640&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Apple podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"h-auto\" style=\"width: 24px\">\n\n<span style=\"font-size: 20px\">Listen on Apple Podcasts<\/span>\n<\/a>\n<\/div>\n\n<div class=\"cs-btn-light text-center mb-4 col-12 col-md-6 pl-md-4\">\n  <a class=\"cs-button d-flex align-items-center justify-content-center gap-3 w-100\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/episode\/7jT6OWVHcSDMUcqYjDIN0I?si=Dndkq688TYiT3O6ciVC-ww\" target=\"_blank\" style=\"gap: 8px\">\n\n<img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/03\/Spotify_White_Logo.png?w=640&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Apple podcast\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"h-auto pr\" style=\"width: 24px\">\n<span style=\"font-size: 20px\">Listen on Spotify<\/span>\n\n<\/a>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n<div style=\"border: 1px solid rgb(0 0 0 \/ 0.1); padding: 25px 25px 10px; border-radius: 8px; box-shadow: 0 4px 6px -1px rgb(0 0 0 \/ 0.1), 0 2px 4px -2px rgb(0 0 0 \/ 0.1);\">\n<h3 id=\"h-pressed-for-time-here-s-a-quick-summary\" class=\"wp-block-heading nitoc\">Short on time? Here are the key takeaways:<\/h3>\n<ul>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\">Greg&#8217;s owner-renter-vandal framework\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\">identifies<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\">\u00a0three archetypes in every organization: (<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\">i<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW108310121 BCX0\">) owners who take genuine initiative, (ii) renters who do their job transactionally, and (iii) vandals whose active disengagement undermines everyone around them<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW113686097 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW113686097 BCX0\">Most engagement strategies focus on converting disengaged employees to engaged, but the real leverage is in addressing the actively disengaged\u2014when vandals are dealt with, the disengaged re-engage on their own<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\">Vandals persist for four predictable reasons: they (<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\">i<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\">) generate significant revenue, (ii) have long tenure, (ii) benefit from nepotism, or (iv)\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\">they&#8217;re<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW265529549 BCX0\"> in a position of power (e.g., the founder of the company)<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW131347730 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW131347730 BCX0\">Culture is built through consistent leadership habits, not values recitations\u2014Greg&#8217;s most effective tool is leaders sharing weekly personal challenges they faced in living out company values, which creates the thick trust that makes honest communication possible<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW255452331 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW255452331 BCX0\">Transparent, proactive communication is the only mechanism that preserves trust through layoffs<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<li><span class=\"TextRun SCXW67451545 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW67451545 BCX0\">AI should be treated as a partner to experiment with openly rather than a threat to stay quiet about<\/span><\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"episode-summary\">Episode Summary<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"the-owner-renter-vandal-framework\">The Owner-Renter-Vandal Framework<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Greg Hawks did not set out to build a leadership philosophy. He stumbled into it through two parallel experiences happening simultaneously: running a nonprofit summer camp with hundreds of volunteers&nbsp;and staff, and managing rental properties in Edmond, Oklahoma. What he noticed was that the people he was not paying, his volunteers, were often more invested and more effective than the people he was. And the people living&nbsp;in&nbsp;his properties were either treating them like their own homes or&nbsp;vandalizing&nbsp;them.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The pattern that&nbsp;emerged&nbsp;became the foundation of his book and his speaking career: owner, renter, vandal. Owners take initiative, think beyond their job description, and act as if the outcomes are personally theirs to claim. Renters do their job adequately but no more. They are transactional. Vandals, whether literal tenants who damaged&nbsp;his&nbsp;properties or employees who spread gossip and undermine team cohesion, actively detract from the environment around them.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The insight that Greg brings to&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.gallup.com\/workplace\/701486\/employee-engagement-declines-2020-peak.aspx\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Gallup&#8217;s 25-year engagement data<\/a>&nbsp;is&nbsp;a&nbsp;helpful&nbsp;reframe in the conversation. Most organizations look at that data and see a problem with the disengaged middle. Greg&#8217;s&nbsp;read&nbsp;is different: the disengaged are not the problem. They are the&nbsp;symptom. The actively disengaged, his vandals, are the cause. When you remove or address the vandals, the disengaged tend to re-engage on their own. When you leave vandals in place and try to motivate the disengaged past them, you get, at most, a&nbsp;one or two point&nbsp;bump. The disengaged are watching. If leadership tolerates destructive behavior, it signals to the broader workforce that the culture is not serious about its own values.<\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full is-resized\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"640\" height=\"517\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/image.png?resize=640%2C517&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"A Gallup line chart titled &quot;U.S. Employee Engagement Trend, Annual Averages,&quot; showing that the percentage of engaged employees rose from about 26% in 2000 to 31% in 2025, while the percentage of actively disengaged employees remained relatively stable, ending at 17% in 2025.\" class=\"wp-image-34656\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1.238652596654532;width:632px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/image.png?w=955&amp;ssl=1 955w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/image.png?resize=300%2C242&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2026\/07\/image.png?resize=768%2C620&amp;ssl=1 768w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"why-vandals-are-hard-to-evict\">Why Vandals Are Hard to Evict<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The obvious question is why organizations do not simply remove people who are actively harmful to the culture. Greg&#8217;s answer is that vandals are not&nbsp;usually easy&nbsp;to&nbsp;identify&nbsp;or easy to act on. He has found four common reasons they persist. First, they are often the highest revenue generators in the organization, the kind of salesperson or producer who can credibly say they are funding the people complaining about them. Second, they have been there for decades, and long tenure creates its own kind of insulation. Third, nepotism protects them, whether in a family business or through informal organizational alliances. Fourth, and&nbsp;perhaps most&nbsp;surprising, the vandal is sometimes the founder or owner of the company, whose own behavior, divisive language, dismissiveness toward team norms, has become normalized over time without anyone being positioned to address it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Dealing with vandals is therefore a test of leadership conviction. It requires believing that removing one&nbsp;productive&nbsp;but corrosive individual will yield more from the broader team than that individual was contributing. Greg&#8217;s experience is that it does, but the benefit is&nbsp;not&nbsp;immediate&nbsp;and the risk is real. That is why, as he notes,&nbsp;nearly one&nbsp;in five employees in the average organization&nbsp;is&nbsp;actively disengaged. They are there because removing them is hard, not because leadership is unaware of the problem.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"building-culture-through-consistent-habits\">Building Culture Through Consistent Habits<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Greg is emphatic that culture cannot be sustained through checklists or&nbsp;values&nbsp;recitations. The organizations he has seen&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/how-to-improve-company-culture-in-burnout-era\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">build genuinely strong cultures<\/a>&nbsp;do it through repeated, small leadership behaviors that make the values real. His most actionable suggestion is also his simplest: leaders should start meetings not by reading a list of company values but by sharing a specific personal challenge they faced that week in living one of those values.&nbsp;Rather than just&nbsp;a&nbsp;morality&nbsp;story, they&nbsp;reveal a&nbsp;real moment of friction, a situation where the easy path conflicted with the stated principle and they had to choose.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That practice does three things simultaneously. It models that values are not aspirational wall art but operational commitments. It creates psychological permission for others to talk about their own struggles with alignment. And it builds what Greg calls thick trust, a culture where enough trust exists to absorb honesty without punishing it.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">The connection to Geoff&#8217;s layoff discussion is direct.&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/layoff-communication-overemployment-salary-gap-hr\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Transparent, proactive communication during a reduction in force<\/a>&nbsp;works precisely when trust has already been built through consistent behavior over time. A leader who has spent two years modeling honesty about&nbsp;hard situations&nbsp;has credibility when they&nbsp;have to&nbsp;deliver genuinely&nbsp;bad news. A leader who has projected relentless optimism through a thick varnish of corporate language does not, and employees know the difference.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"ai-as-partner-not-replacement\">AI as Partner, Not Replacement<\/h3>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full is-resized\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"640\" height=\"492\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/AI-In-HR-2024-Transforming-Talent-With-Technology-1.png?resize=640%2C492&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"A cartoon illustration of two people collaborating alongside a large AI robot emerging from a smartphone, with one person working on a laptop and another interacting with the robot while holding a tablet, representing AI as a collaborative partner that works with humans rather than replacing them.\" class=\"wp-image-28239\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1.3000146134736226;width:492px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/AI-In-HR-2024-Transforming-Talent-With-Technology-1.png?w=650&amp;ssl=1 650w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/AI-In-HR-2024-Transforming-Talent-With-Technology-1.png?resize=300%2C231&amp;ssl=1 300w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 640px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Greg&#8217;s view on AI is straightforward and grounded in historical perspective. He was in the workforce when the internet arrived, when there was similar fear about what it would eliminate. In his view, the internet&nbsp;ultimately created&nbsp;more&nbsp;opportunity&nbsp;than it displaced, and AI is likely to follow the same trajectory, with the key difference that the pace of change is&nbsp;faster&nbsp;and the capability of the technology is broader.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">His advice to leaders is to lean into transparency and experimentation rather than either panic or silence. Many organizations are still in the pilot program phase with AI, and acknowledging that openly, discussing quarterly what has been tested, what worked, and what did not, is meaningfully better than letting employees speculate about what AI means for their roles in the absence of information. Silence creates fear. Honest uncertainty creates engagement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">On the question of what skills will matter in an&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/top-hr-ai-tools\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">AI-partnered workplace<\/a>, Greg&#8217;s answer is not technical: curiosity, creativity, and the willingness to experiment. People who can ask good questions, synthesize outputs, and bring genuine human judgment to AI-assisted work will have more opportunity, not less. And Greg draws some encouragement from the Gen Z resistance to artificiality, the same generation using AI tools who are also&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.wellable.co\/blog\/gen-z-ai-backlash-commencement-speeches-bolt-hr-401k\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">booing AI-centric commencement speeches<\/a>&nbsp;and showing a growing appetite for authenticity over optimization. If that resistance holds, human creativity and genuine engagement will remain irreplaceable assets.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"frequently-asked-questions\">Frequently Asked Questions<\/h2>\n\n\n\n    <section class=\"faq-section\">\n      <div class=\"faq-accordion\">\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_1\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            What is the owner-renter-vandal framework?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_1\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">Developed by Greg Hawks through his parallel experience leading a nonprofit and managing rental properties, the framework\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">identifies<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">\u00a0three employee archetypes present in every organization. Owners take initiative, act beyond their job description, and treat\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun ContextualSpellingAndGrammarErrorV2Themed SCXW50070550 BCX0\">outcomes as<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">\u00a0personally theirs. Renters do their jobs adequately but transactionally, neither growing nor detracting. Vandals, the actively disengaged, actively undermine the environment through divisive behavior, negativity, or refusal to\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">participate<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW50070550 BCX0\">\u00a0in team culture.<\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_2\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            Why should organizations focus on vandals rather than disengaged employees?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_2\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"TextRun SCXW14403312 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW14403312 BCX0\">Greg&#8217;s analysis of 25 years of Gallup engagement data shows that organizations get more engagement lift from addressing actively disengaged employees than from trying to convert disengaged employees to engaged. The reason is that the disengaged are watching. If leadership tolerates vandal behavior, it signals that the culture is not serious, and the disengaged stay put or drift further. When vandals are addressed, the disengaged tend to re-engage on their own, because the signal has changed.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_3\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            Why do vandals stay in organizations so long?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_3\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"TextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\">Greg identifies four common reasons: they are high revenue\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\">generators<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\">\u00a0and their productivity creates protection, they have long tenure and the awkwardness of addressing that is avoided, they benefit from nepotism or informal alliances, or they are the company founder or owner whose behavior has never been formally contested. In each case, the friction of removal feels higher than the friction of tolerance, which is why the actively disengaged population in most organizations has\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\">remained<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW31687965 BCX0\"> stubbornly consistent at around 17% for decades.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_4\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            How should leaders build culture through habits rather than policies?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_4\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"TextRun SCXW2019561 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW2019561 BCX0\">Greg&#8217;s core recommendation is for leaders to open meetings by sharing a specific, personal challenge they faced that week in living out a company value. Not a generic principle, but a real situation with real friction. That practice makes values operational rather than aspirational,\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW2019561 BCX0\">creates psychological safety for others to discuss their own alignment challenges, and builds the thick trust that makes honest communication possible, including during difficult moments like layoffs.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_5\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            How can leaders maintain trust through layoffs?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_5\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"TextRun SCXW89462385 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW89462385 BCX0\">Greg&#8217;s position, drawn from direct client experience, is that transparent, proactive communication is the only mechanism that preserves trust when the news is bad. Leaders do not need to have all the answers, but they need to be honest about what they know, why decisions are being made, and what they are trying to do to move the organization forward. Leaders who have built thick trust through consistent honesty over time have credibility in those moments. Leaders who have projected only optimism do not.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n        <div class=\"faq-item card card-faq\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"faq_6\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            How should organizations approach AI in the workplace?            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"faq_6\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><span class=\"TextRun SCXW181686343 BCX0\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW181686343 BCX0\">Greg recommends treating AI as a partner and being transparent about the experimentation process. Most mid-size and smaller organizations are still in the pilot phase with AI, and acknowledging that openly, discussing what is being tested and what the results have been, is more effective than silence. He argues that the skills that will matter most in an AI-partnered workplace are human ones: curiosity, creativity, and the willingness to experiment. Technical\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW181686343 BCX0\">proficiency<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW181686343 BCX0\"> matters less than the ability to work alongside AI tools with genuine judgment and intentionality.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n      <\/div>\n    <\/section>\n\n    \n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"full-episode-transcript\"><strong style=\"color: transparent; visibility: hidden; opacity: 0;\">Full Episode Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><\/p>\n\n\n\n    <section class=\"faq-section toc-helper-accordion\">\n      <div class=\"faq-accordion\">\n\n        \n        <div class=\"custom-accordion-item\">\n          <button \n            class=\"faq-question\" \n            data-target=\"transcript_1\"\n            type=\"button\"\n          >\n            <h2 id=\"full-episode-transcript\"><strong>Full Episode Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n            <span class=\"icon\"><\/span>\n          <\/button>\n\n          <div id=\"transcript_1\" class=\"faq-answer\">\n            <p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Welcome to the\u00a0Wellable\u00a0Weekly Podcast, where we cover the key topics and trends at the intersection of well-being, technology, and HR.\u00a0I&#8217;m\u00a0Geoff, and today we have\u00a0a very special\u00a0guest. Greg Hawks is a keynote speaker, corporate culture expert, and bestselling author of Act Like an Owner. Greg has over 25 years of leadership experience across real estate, nonprofits, and entrepreneurship. Greg gives leaders the frameworks and language to build trust, elevate accountability, and create cultures where people take real ownership of results. Greg, welcome to the show.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0So good.\u00a0It&#8217;s\u00a0a great time\u00a0to be here, Geoff. Thank you so much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Twenty-five years\u00a0across\u00a0real estate, nonprofits, entrepreneurship. Tell me about the\u00a0through line.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0The through line is\u00a0definitely a\u00a0leadership philosophy.\u00a0In 2000, I took over as executive director of a nonprofit working with young people. We ran summer camps,\u00a0sleeping 800 kids a week, thousands through the summer. I did that for a decade, running a lot of volunteers, doing\u00a0a lot of leadership development. And\u00a0in\u00a0that same time, since I was\u00a0in\u00a0nonprofit and trying to generate revenue beyond what the nonprofit paid, I started buying single family homes in Edmond, Oklahoma. No experience at all. My entire real estate strategy\u00a0was:\u00a0buy\u00a0nice houses, put nice people in them. And it honestly paid off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">So\u00a0I had these parallel things happening. And you could see the mindset crossing over. I had people living in my homes who took better care of them than I did, because they acted like they owned it. Just renters in financial terms, but the way they thought about it and cared for it was special. And contrasting that with people I was\u00a0paying\u00a0who\u00a0weren&#8217;t\u00a0bringing their heart or their head. I also had some college students who vandalized\u00a0a property\u00a0and set me\u00a0way back. You could see the same dynamic in the workplace: how one person can be so detrimental through what they say and do, spreading negativity and gossip. Those became\u00a0the vandals\u00a0in my world, literally and figuratively.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0The recent engagement data, Gallup in particular, is\u00a0pretty sobering.\u00a0Decade\u00a0lows, return-to-office\u00a0mandates,\u00a0companies trying to figure out the right mix of human capital and technology. How do you think about acting like an owner when the average employee is dealing with significant turbulence?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0If you look at 25 years of Gallup data, that middle line, the disengaged, bumps one or two points in either direction.\u00a0It&#8217;s\u00a0a plus or minus two over the whole span. The\u00a0disengaged\u00a0aren&#8217;t\u00a0as bad as people make them out to be. In my terminology, those are renters, and what you need for renters are lease-purchase options: help them buy back in. But people focus on converting the disengaged to engaged, and\u00a0that&#8217;s\u00a0the wrong strategy. Where the\u00a0magic is\u00a0is\u00a0in the actively disengaged. When you deal with that group, the numbers for engaged go up. You\u00a0don&#8217;t\u00a0get more engaged\u00a0people\u00a0by\u00a0dealing with the disengaged. You get more engaged people by dealing with the actively disengaged, because the disengaged are watching. If you tolerate the vandal behavior, they ask themselves: why should I give more? Why should I care? When you deal with the lower group, the disengaged jump up. A lot of people ops strategies focused on the disengaged are wasting time and money.\u00a0They&#8217;ll\u00a0get a\u00a0one or two point\u00a0bump, and\u00a0that&#8217;s\u00a0it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0You compared the actively\u00a0disengaged to\u00a0vandals. In real estate, you evict vandals. Do you see organizations taking a harder line?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0That&#8217;s\u00a0what makes it such a friction point. There are four categories that explain why vandals exist. Number one:\u00a0they&#8217;re\u00a0revenue generators. Highly productive, generating real money,\u00a0just\u00a0don&#8217;t\u00a0want to\u00a0participate\u00a0in culture or team. They can credibly say\u00a0they&#8217;re\u00a0practically\u00a0paying for everyone else. Number two:\u00a0they&#8217;ve\u00a0been there a long time, ten,\u00a0twenty, thirty years, and\u00a0it&#8217;s\u00a0awkward to\u00a0address at\u00a0this point.\u00a0You&#8217;re\u00a0hoping they\u00a0don&#8217;t\u00a0say something that creates a lawsuit. Number three: nepotism.\u00a0It&#8217;s\u00a0real, especially in family businesses. And number four, which you might find interesting: sometimes the vandal is the owner of the company. Someone who started the business who says and does things that are divisive and\u00a0doesn&#8217;t\u00a0realize how destructive their words can be, because they feel like they can do it without you anyway.\u00a0So\u00a0it&#8217;s\u00a0not easy. Dealing with the vandals requires believing the rest of the team will step up when you do.\u00a0It&#8217;s\u00a0a risk. And it\u00a0doesn&#8217;t\u00a0happen overnight.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Most leaders I talk to say the gap is in execution, not knowledge. They know what\u00a0good\u00a0culture looks like. They just struggle to commit to it consistently.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Totally. Culture\u00a0can&#8217;t\u00a0be sustained through checklists.\u00a0You&#8217;ve got\u00a0to have leaders with built-in consistent habits. And what I always encourage leaders to do instead of reading the values at the start of a meeting is share one situation from the past week where they personally faced a challenge with one of those values. Not a\u00a0morality\u00a0tale. A real moment:\u00a0here&#8217;s\u00a0where our value of integrity came up for me this week,\u00a0here&#8217;s\u00a0where the easier path conflicted with what we say we believe, and\u00a0here&#8217;s\u00a0what I did. When leaders share those challenges openly,\u00a0it does\u00a0a few things. It makes the values operational, not aspirational. It creates permission for others to speak about their own struggles. And it builds what I call thick trust, a culture where you can expose a weakness without being punished for it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0We&#8217;ve\u00a0seen massive layoffs across tech and healthcare over the past couple of years, with companies still posting strong earnings. How do leaders rebuild trust after that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I have a client that has\u00a0done\u00a0a ten percent reduction in\u00a0force\u00a0two years in a row. And while doing it, they also started hiring internationally because the price-to-output ratio made so much more sense. So not only did people watch colleagues get let go,\u00a0they\u00a0watched the company add headcount from another country at the same cost.\u00a0That&#8217;s\u00a0a tough reality. What I appreciate about this client is that\u00a0they&#8217;re\u00a0at least upfront about it.\u00a0They&#8217;re\u00a0talking about it while\u00a0it&#8217;s\u00a0happening. Transparent, proactive communication is the only thing that keeps trust intact when\u00a0the decisions\u00a0are hard.\u00a0It&#8217;s\u00a0not that anyone is happy about it. But the people who\u00a0remain, who know\u00a0you&#8217;ve\u00a0been upfront throughout the process, who know\u00a0it&#8217;s\u00a0not because senior leadership got big bonuses while everyone else\u00a0suffered,\u00a0that foundation of honesty is the only real\u00a0option. Because when the numbers\u00a0aren&#8217;t\u00a0working and you\u00a0have to\u00a0make those choices, transparent communication is what keeps trust alive, even when the consequences are painful.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0AI is reshaping\u00a0pretty much every\u00a0job. For organizations that\u00a0don&#8217;t\u00a0yet have a firm plan for how to incorporate it, should they be communicating about that, or staying quiet in the absence of\u00a0good information?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0I\u00a0don&#8217;t\u00a0think staying quiet is\u00a0an option.\u00a0I&#8217;m\u00a0also not proposing leaders\u00a0share\u00a0everything, because there is a strategic element to how things roll out. But with AI specifically, I think the transparency of experimentation matters. At this moment, it&#8217;s still really\u00a0experimentation\u00a0for\u00a0a majority of\u00a0mid-size and smaller organizations, even large ones. Talking openly about\u00a0what&#8217;s\u00a0being piloted,\u00a0what&#8217;s\u00a0being tested, imagining how AI can be\u00a0utilized\u00a0alongside your people rather than instead of them,\u00a0that&#8217;s\u00a0the communication that reduces fear. Leaders who let employees\u00a0speculate\u00a0in a vacuum are making a mistake.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">On the bigger question of what AI means for work: I was around when the internet\u00a0arrived\u00a0and everyone thought it would\u00a0eliminate\u00a0everything. In my view, the internet\u00a0ultimately created\u00a0more\u00a0opportunity\u00a0than it displaced. AI is different, but\u00a0I think the same principle\u00a0holds if we approach it the right way. The skills that will matter are not technical.\u00a0They&#8217;re\u00a0human: curiosity, creativity, the\u00a0willingness to experiment. People who can work with AI intelligently, who can ask good questions and apply judgment to what comes back, will have more opportunity, not less. And honestly, the growing resistance to artificiality among younger generations, the same generation that grew up with AI and is now pushing back against AI-generated content, gives me some hope that human creativity and authenticity will hold lasting value.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0Where can listeners find you and your work?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Greg:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">\u00a0The easiest place is greghawks.com.\u00a0Everything&#8217;s\u00a0there. And\u00a0I&#8217;m\u00a0very active\u00a0on LinkedIn \u2014 just\u00a0search\u00a0Greg Hawks. I spend a lot of time with people in the HR and\u00a0people\u00a0business, so LinkedIn&#8217;s\u00a0a great place\u00a0to connect.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Geoff:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Greg, thank you so much for joining the podcast. And for everyone listening to\u00a0Wellable\u00a0Weekly, you can find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n          <\/div>\n        <\/div>\n\n        \n      <\/div>\n    <\/section>\n\n    \n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Wellable Weekly welcomes keynote speaker and bestselling author Greg Hawks to discuss his owner-renter-vandal framework, why engagement strategies target the wrong group, how to rebuild trust after layoffs, and what AI means for the future of work.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":34672,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[23],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-34618","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-podcasts"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO Premium plugin v20.6 (Yoast SEO v27.7) - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-premium-wordpress\/ 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